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ADC 2025: Penman says civil servants are “hungry for reform”

Dave Penman at Annual Delegate Conference 2025
Dave Penman at Annual Delegate Conference 2025. Credit: Graham Martin

At the union’s Annual Delegate Conference delegates heard from guest speakers FDA General Secretary Dave Penman, journalist Lewis Goodall, and Cabinet Office minister Georgia Gould.

Dave Penman, FDA General Secretary Dave Penman

As reported in Civil Service World, in FDA General Secretary Dave Penman’s speech to ADC 2025 he called on the government to commit to “a clear plan for improved public services and a people plan to match” with a particular focus on pay, saying:

“Civil servants can be the engine room of reform, they are hungry for it. But reform has to have substance.”

Penman rejected the idea that civil servants are resistant to change, instead challenging the government to “get on with it.”

“Being in government means it needs to be more than a buzzword in a speech. There has to be clear political objectives, a matching of resources to commitments and a plan.”

Penman criticised the language the government has used to characterise its civil servants, saying: “Civil servants don’t get to decide the size of government, ministers do. They don’t create regulations or regulators to enforce them, ministers do.

“So, let’s cut out the language of a “bloated state”, of “blockers” and “the usual suspects”.

Penman told delegates that, despite it being nearly a year since the new government was elected, “we’re nowhere near the sort of discussion we need to be having, for that once in a generation reform that the civil service so badly needs”.

“The new government has been given a once in a generation majority. It has set itself high ambitions and we all know that there is much to be done to improve public services. It needs a strong, skilled and motivated workforce to deliver them.

“That’s why we need to get on with it.”

Lewis Goodall, journalist, broadcaster, and author

Lewis Goodall answers delegates questions at ADC 2025.
Lewis Goodall answers delegates questions at ADC 2025. Credit: Graham Martin

The conference got underway with a speech from journalist, broadcaster, and author Lewis Goodall, who co-hosts the award-winning podcast ‘The News Agents’, as well as hosting a LBC radio programme.  

In his address Goodall reflected on the first nine months of the new government, whose landslide election he described as “one of the great political opportunities of the labour movement in its existence”, including the opportunities that have come with it and the challenges that lie ahead.

Goodall went on to discuss the current political landscape, the role of civil servants within it, and the political changes the country may undergo between now and the next election. Goodall warned of the “pied pipers of politics”, and the politics of wanting “all good things, anywhere, everywhere, and all at once”, rather than governments that just “get on with the job” and focus on delivery.

On the relationship between ministers and civil servants, and the future of ‘mission-led government’, Goodall predicts the government’s appetite for innovation and experimentation may grow over time, having started out almost a year ago with a “pretty blank” plan.

Goodall closed off a Q&A session with delegates with a reflection on an ongoing “era of permacrisis” for British politics in both the domestic and geopolitical spheres, and the “ideological exhaustion” this has created for both major political parties which he argues have been left with a “black hole of ideology”.

Georgia Gould, Parliamentary Secretary at the Cabinet Office

Georgia Gould at ADC 2025.
Georgia Gould (left) at ADC 2025. Credit: Graham Martin

Delegates were also joined by Parliamentary Secretary at the Cabinet Office Georgia Gould. In this role, Gould works alongside the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster Pat McFadden and has ministerial responsibility for public sector reform, oversight of government functions, and Cabinet Office business planning and performance.

Gould was appointed a minister just five days after being elected as an MP and started her address to delegates by saying a personal thank you to civil servants “for seamless transition… As a new MP I’ve been so grateful for the support, so much depth of knowledge on every issue”.

She went on to thank the FDA as “a source of advice, partnership and… robust challenge” during her time in office.

Gould expressed the view that civil servants often “feel frustrated about the system they work in”, later adding “I believe we have brilliant people that are stuck in systems that don’t’ work, we need to change that… We need to make sure that civil servants are supported, don’t always feel they have the mandate to do it”.

Discussing the issue of civil service reform Gould said: “The civil service is an amazing constitution, but it can get in the way. It’s deeply embedded and set up for a slower, less complex world, more hierarchical. Departments are far too siloed when all the challenges we face are deeply complex”.

Answering a question from a delegate on how she is learning from previous attempts to reform the civil service, Gould responded that she is speaking to as many former ministers as possible, including both Labour and Conservative. She will also continue to speak to civil service trade unions, who can offer a different perspective on proposals.

Following on from the government’s announcement this week on the next stages of the Places for Growth programme and plans to move civil service jobs out of London, the Minister stated:  “London will continue to be the thriving centre, but we also want more progression opportunities. When I spoke to civil servants in those hubs they said they didn’t feel enough was being made of these opportunities”.

“For me it’s not just about the location, it’s a change in that approach. Not just making decisions in Whitehall but innovating together in the front line”.

Addressing the government’s wider plans for public services and mission-led government Gould stated that these missions are “for the country and for all civil servants. We need to get behind you, ensure you have the proper training to see delivery in different contexts. Break down barriers between operational and delivery roles, remove processes and bureaucracy. Becomes much more seamless across departments. Some people have said they don’t want to put their head above the parapet because it’s not rewarded, that has to change”.

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